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Paddington rulz ok
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Official Discussion: Captain Marvel [SPOILERS]

Poll

If you've seen the film, please rate it at this poll.

If you haven't seen the film but would like to see the result of the poll click here.


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Summary:

The story follows Carol Danvers in the 1990s as she becomes one of the universe's most powerful heroes when Earth is caught in the middle of a galactic war between two alien races.

Directors:

Anna Boden, Ryan Fleck

Writers:

screenplay by Anna Boden, Ryan Fleck, Geneva Robertson-Dworet

story by Nicole Perlman, Meg LeFauve, Anna Boden, Ryan Fleck, Geneva Robertson-Dworet .

Cast:

  • Brie Larson as Vers / Carol Danvers / Captain Marvel

  • London Fuller as 6 year old Brie

  • CGI Samuel L. Jackson as Nick Fury

  • Ben Mendelsohn as Talos

  • Djimon Hounsou as Korath

  • Lee Pace as Ronan the Accuser

  • Lashana Lynch as Maria Rambeau

  • Gemma Chan as Minn-Erva

  • Annette Bening as the Supreme Intelligence / Mar-Vell / Dr. Wendy Lawson

  • CGI Clark Gregg as Phil Coulson

  • Jude Law as Yon-Rogg / Napkinhead

  • Algenis Pérez Soto as Att-Lass

  • Rune Temte as Bron-Char

  • Vik Sahay as Torfa

  • Chuku Modu as Soh-Larr

  • Colin Ford as Steve Danvers

  • Kenneth Mitchell as Carol's father

  • Reggie, Archie, Rizzo and Gonzo as Goose the Cat

  • Matthew "Spider" Kimmel as himself

  • Stephen "Cajun" Del Bagno (RIP) as himself

  • Kelly Sue DeConnick as cameo

  • Stan Lee (RIP) as cameo

  • Chris Evans, Scarlett Johansson, Mark Ruffalo and Don Cheadle as SPOILERS!


Rotten Tomatoes: 83%

Metacritic: 65/100

After Credits Scene? ...come on. Ya know there is. Just wait. You can hold it.


All previous official discussions can be found on /r/discussionarchive

17.9k comments
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level 1

So I just got back from seeing Captain Marvel, thought I'd throw down my thoughts.

Overall, I thought it was good, but not great. It maintained my attention for most of the film.

I thought Carol Danvers was wooden. A particular scene that really stuck out to me was when her best friend's daughter hugs her. She doesn't really look uncomfortable, or awkward, or really anything. She just stands there. When she's going to leave and smiles at her friend? The smile just felt pointless. And that was kinda endemic throughout the movie. She felt like her limbs were moving, her lips were speaking, but there wasn't anything behind them. I'd love to hear her say just what she was thinking at various points in the film. Personally, my best acting is when I'm completely in character, when I'm thinking and feeling what my character is thinking and feeling, and I just don't feel like she ever really firmly settled into her role. Overall: C. She filled the role, but didn't go above and beyond.

On the other hand, I thought her friend pilot was awesome. Literally everything about her character is good. She's well acted, her emotions are almost always authentic - with the minor exception of the 'list off all Carol's good attributes' scene - and best of all, literally everything she does, and is capable of doing, is justified within the movie. She's able to beat up bad guys? Of course she can, she's a trained airforce member. She's a kickass dogfighter? Of course she can, she's an ace test pilot! I especially liked the Cessna at her home, it was a nice touch. Overall, A+ character.

I thought the chief Kree guy was mediocre. His motivation wasn't very clear, and his acting was kinda bland. The final scene where he's telling Carol to fight him and then gets blasted? I don't know why, but it felt like it dragged on a bit, like his emotions weren't clear. In my head I was like 'he's probably doing this because he knows he cant beat her powered up', but the movie never really tries to portray that? And beyond that, despite his actions, he's never really portrayed as a particularly bad guy, so I didn't dislike him enough to get too much satisfaction out of him getting blasted. Overall: C. Same as Danvers, ore or less.

On the other hand, I really liked the Girl Sniper Kree. She didn't get much showtime, but overall she just seemed cool and competent. She got off that quad-kill right in the beginning, which showed she was badass, and then she didn't want to shoot at civilians, which showed she wasn't evil. She piloted well, too, and I was honestly disappointed that she seems to have been killed off. Not a major character, obviously, but still, she was cool. Overall, B+.

Nick Fury fit his role well, but then, Sam Jackson's been acting for forever, if he didn't do well I'd be surprised. Did notice a bit of old man walk in the archives scene, but that's just nitpicking. Overall, just as good as we've come to expect from him. A.


Now for the movie as a whole.

I didn't mind the format of the film. The way we see her past in the beginning and then Carol has to figure it out for an hour was fine and didn't bother me. What did bother me was how, after we know she was kidnapped and had her memories erased by the obviously evil computer, we're still supposed to be surprised that gasp the Kree are actually the bad guys, and the Skrull are actually the good guys! What a shocker!

It's just...after we know that Carol was essentially kidnapped, the rest becomes obvious. I wish there had been a second surprise in there. Maybe SOME of the Skrull are actually bad guys but most are good guys and the Kree are killing them all anyway. Maybe they wanna use the Tesseract to wipe out the Kree after all, and Carol has to take it from them and put it on Earth to keep it from both of them, then fly off to broker peace. I dunno, something. As it was, it was mainly surprising in how unsurprising it was.


Little Details of Varying Relevance

I thought the train scene was gratuitous. The one good part of it that I really liked was at the end, where she turns the guy around, it's not a Skrull, and then it zooms out to show hundreds of people, which really showed the power of their mimicking ability. Great worldbuilding.

I found it odd that our apparent hero spends a good portion of her time on earth falling through roofs, stealing coats and motorcycles, blowing holes in things, and vandalizing telephones. For a hero, she does a lot of pretty bad things. All relatively minor, but still.

I liked the suit color change, I thought it was well justified. The girl using the arm controls were a bit odd though. I get the feeling they were just like "Just swipe around randomly here, we'll get the tech guys to make it look right later." and then they just used the tech demo instead of something practical. But meh, nitpicking.

The misogynists made me roll my eyes, but not a huge deal, and I imagine some people rather enjoy it, so whatever, nbd.

The final fight scene felt weird to me. On the one hand, it was a lot like Iron Man; flying around shooting blasts from her hands is basically pure Iron Man. The weird part is it felt like they were trying to work in this "omg I can finally fly" laughing fighting thing? But it just kinda happened and then went away randomly through the fight, and it ended up feeling kinda tacked on. Which is honestly a real shame; a big part of her character is loving to fly to get that view from above, and now she finally has a chance to actually fly! This should be the best moment in her life! And instead of ebullience, we just get a mostly generic fight scene. The other part I didn't really like is how she instantly figured out how to fight and fly and stuff, despite only unlocking her powers recently. I liked how she was throwing herself around in the indoor fight scene, and wish that had continued a little bit in the main fight scene itself. The way I could envision it is, she's not flying very well, and is having a hard time adjusting, and goes down near her friend to recover for a moment. Her friend flips her that pinky and thumb gesture from earlier, and suddenly her memories of being an ace test pilot come back, and pow, she's back to kicking ass and taking names, with the whole thing kinda shot like a dogfight, except SHE is the fighter jet. That would be cool and thematic.

The other scene that bothered me was the bit where she's talking to the AI. It has this message about how she's 'only human', and how she kept falling down and getting back up, and then, she...never falls down again? It's just kind odd. I wish they'd had the computer knock her down more times, and each time she got back up, she got back up stronger, because that's what humans do.

Extending from that, she took off the neck thing...but she did so WHILE BOUND, in a virtual space! How does that impact the real world? That part was weird. Plus how, like, the other Kree see this dangerous rogue lady start to glow and the stuff starts to fly off and they don't, like, attack her while her guard is down. Polite of them to wait, but still, why? This also would have worked in nicely with the whole 'falling down and getting up' then. If she powers up, then goes down, then powers up again, then goes down, they'll start to relax, and think the computer's got it handled. Then she powers up a third time and blows off the neck brace and instantly blasts off the tendrils and blows everyone back, then it justifies them being taken by surprise.

Oh, and all those warheads that were close enough together for their own explosions to destroy themselves...where were they going? The desert? Why? They weren't aiming for Carol, because she caught one and it didn't blow up. So what were they for?

I liked the way the cat was set up and used. A good plot device that could have been a deus ex machina, but because of how it was introduced and utilized, didn't end up ruining anything. Well done.


Anyways, overall I thought it was a decent film. Not as good as Iron Man 1 or Captain America 1, but slightly better than Thor 1, and definitely above IM2 and 3. Overall, worth watching.

level 1

So.... Just saw the film. Enjoyed it, probably a solid 6.5/7, some really good moments, lots of good moments, and worked well in the already established canon. Except I wonder if they know what they've done.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong. We know that Ronan is hanging around Thanos and becomes some religious nutjob. Here we see him working with at least elements of the Kree army, and the AI that seems to run things on the Kree world. From GotG we see Ronan go full 'zerker and get hold of one of the Infinity Stones, comes to destroy worlds, dies to air guitar. What we don't see is Dumbledore or HAL.


So... The Kree are conquering the galaxy, wiping out races that disagree with them. They bomb civilian populations at the start of the film to wipe out Skrull 'strongholds', so they aren't doing good things. Captain Danvers states outright that she's going to spend the next few decades finding a new Skrull homeworld, and tearing down the AI, and by extension the Kree military. Meaning she is taking on what seems to be the strongest military power in the galaxy, to the extent that Ronan with a relatively small fleet is seriously threatening the Xandarians, who seem to have an alliance with the Kree, by the time of GotG. The Kree can't even bail out their allies, nor deal with a rogue element from their own military. Are they too weak to do so?


Thanos, in the interim, has become some great galactic threat. There's no mention of him in Captain Marvel, and Ronan is still operating roughly within Kree military. So... does Carol's one-woman crusade lead to the rise of Thanos? The Kree would have to pull back from threatened border worlds to consolidate their military as Danvers is tearing through their ships and dismantling the AI. Nature abhors a vacuum, and politics is no different. Thanos would find himself faced with a bunch of new worlds, freshly unprotected by their Imperial overlords, and be able to steal or kill as he wishes. He gains strength, leading his crusade across ex-Kree protectorates who have already had their military power curtailed by Kree conquests two decades before, half-destroying populations and taking whatever resources he wants. Maybe Ronan, cut loose from a fragmenting military, defects to Thanos because he sees which way the winds are blowing.


Is Infinity War Carol's fault?

level 2

That’s a great theory. Hopefully a CM2 touches on that one-woman destruction of the AI.

Honestly there’s so much interesting potential for a massive empire ruled by an AI.

level 1
3 points · 12 hours ago

Did anyone else feel trolled by the opening with the dust? Thought for the first two cuts that we were immediately following Infinity War for a second.

level 1

Anyone else think that Jude Law's character is a Skrull?

There's a bit toward the end where Danvers' girlfriend's kid is telling a Skrull kid that if she could change, she would keep her eyes.

The Skrulls have light rings in their irises, from what I recall, and Jude Law did, too. Made me wonder if he has been a Skrull since the beginning (so he'd pass any kind of memory tests - and might be why he doesn't explain who he sees in the Matrix, since maybe it's a Skrull). Haven't really seen this brought up by anyone else so maybe I'm nuts.

level 2

my opinion only

is talos is as evil as the Skrulls actually are ( in the comics the Skrulls are JUST as bad as the Kree )- they just used her to help him get what he wants - we as the audience get trolled and what we think of as a likable fellow ( Talos) is just a guy manipulating what he sees as a Kree or someone who isnt a Skrull as only a method to get his own family safe....

level 2
6 points · 13 hours ago · edited 13 hours ago

I feel like if they were to reveal that, it would make him less interesting to me.

A: This movie subverted the usual “evil alien race VS good alien race” trope. There are evil Kree and good Kree just like there are good and bad humans. Sidenote, I also liked that the Kree could have different races (blue, black, white) within the same planet, like Earth and Asgard. To make Jude Law a secretly standard evil green alien would be a disservice to the movie’s plea for nuance and challenging expectations.

B: Hasn’t the “hero’s closest ally is secretly an alien foe” thing been done already? Loki > Thor.

level 3

Agree. As like, an adult who is not extremely into the MCU- this movie would have been so, so boring if the Skrull were just evil and the Kree were just good. It still doesn't get as morally gray as I hoped it would (just flips the black and white dichotomy), but I've heard people talking about how making the Skrull "good" was stupid and I just don't get that.

level 4

Probably people who demand the MCU stay predictably faithful to the comics, or maybe they don’t grasp how boring that would’ve been for them.

level 1

I saw this yesterday solely because my 4 year old daughter just loves super heroes right now. She was bored with the first 1/2 of the movie as it was just really slowly paced. She enjoyed the last half and now wants a Captain Marvel dress from Target.

It was fine. My only real complaint is that the music was too distracting. The placement of Come As You Are was a big time groaner for me. My taste in Marvel movies and shows usually runs counter to what the majority thinks (i.e. I really liked Luke Cage), but this was decent enough. I think Wonder Woman held my kids' attention better.

level 2

I think this movie was really trying to be what Wonder Woman was, but just didn't quite understand what made Wonder Woman particularly good.

Regardless, one thing I do have to keep in mind with any Marvel movie is that they are, at least in part, kids movies (at least some of them)

level 1

Question about "Shield". In Iron Man, they are "working on it" (re the name Shield). In Captain Marvel, they have a logo, hats, etc. How is this explained?

level 2

The name SHIELD has been around since Tony’s Stark father cofounded it. They reversed engineered what the letters meant as the word “shield” was the most important part. I assume it was from Captain America’s shield. It’s the meaning of those words that they’re working on.

level 2

I wondered the same thing!

level 1
21 points · 1 day ago · edited 1 day ago

Basically fresh out of the theater, figure I'll just make a list. Of course, this is all just my personal opinion:


  • In general, the movie really has a strong peak right around 2/3rds in- right before and during we learn of the major twist in the plot. It's here that the humor is the best, the cinematography actually looks quite good, etc. Honestly, the main space goblin guy really carries the film for me

  • On this note- I feel like Captain Marvel is always *so close* to being more morally gray and interesting, with scenes where the line between civilian and combatant or terrorist and freedom fighter are blurred- but it never feels like it fully commits to this and the story ends up being as black and white as ever.

  • Brie Larson, hate to say it, she's not good at comedy, at least to me. I don't know what it is- but all of her jokes fall flat. I really feel like it would have been better if CM was more of the straight-man type like Captain America is. Honestly I think some of this might be due to editing. There are a few jokes where the pacing is just completely off (the one where CM blasts the door while Fury is unraveling his fingerprint tape comes to mind)

  • I feel like the elephant in the room for this movie is always just like.. how it functions as a feminist or woman centric film. Which is valid. To this point... it's kind of ehh? I feel like in this aspect alone Wonder Woman really blew it out of the water. There are just a few moments that made it felt weird. The one fight where "Just a Girl" seemingly blasts at max volume- it just felt so tonally dissonant with the scene and out of place. And it's like I get that she's a cool girl beating people up- it's on the screen in front of me right now, I don't need a song to explain that. It just feels like whenever they do shit like that, it comes off like they don't believe the message themselves because they don't let it stand on it's own two legs. Compare to Wonder Woman, they just believed in the character they created and it worked.

  • Felt like Goose (the cat) got a little too much screentime maybe. It's funny at first but kind of wears it's welcome. I appreciate the Top Gun reference though.

  • Fight scenes were.. okay, but I guess I've just never been into that type of "high level" superpower before like Superman where they're basically an unkillable god. Personal preference is more towards Spiderman type stuff, "closer to the ground".

  • Just in general it felt a bit 'dumber' as a movie. Like, Marvel movies never expect a ton from their audience- but it seemed especially prominent here.

Those are almost all critiques, but I didn't hate the movie or anything. I've never been a huge MCU fan aside from 2 or 3 of them- and I can't say CM really blew me away. Probably like a 6/10 by itself maybe a 7 or an 8 / 10 if you're into the MCU.

level 2

The one fight where "Just a Girl" seemingly blasts at max volume- it just felt so tonally dissonant with the scene and out of place. And it's like I get that she's a cool girl beating people up- it's on the screen in front of me right now, I don't need a song to explain that. It just feels like whenever they do shit like that, it comes off like they don't believe the message themselves because they don't let it stand on it's own two legs

My personal belief is that Marvel Studios bought the rights to use the No Doubt song and couldn't find a good place for it so decided to shove it in reasoning be damned.

level 2

I agree other than that Come As You Are got a faint smile from me and I liked the comedy. The jokes were Ant-Man tier but Larson made me cringe a bit less.

level 3

Oof, I had forgotten about how rough the humor was in Ant-Man as well. It's weird how they can nail it with things like Thor: Ragnarok and Infinity War and then just kind of.. forget.

Not sure which I liked least. I think I liked Pull Rudd's delivery, at least.

level 1
19 points · 1 day ago

Finished this movie a couple of days ago. Was expecting much worse with the backlash tbh (I don't mind the whole "girl power" stuff too much, if it ends up inspiring a younger generation of girls more power to them). It was a fun watch, not an amazing story and definitely feels like a movie to fill in some gaps for Avengers. Probably somewhere in the lower middle pack as far as Marvel movie rankings go.

level 2
7 points · 1 day ago

It kind of reminded me of a phase 1 Marvel movie in a way. Lots of fun, has some good laughs, story was entertaining, but didn't quite have the depth of Civil War, the humor of Ragnarok or GotG, or the spectacle of the Avengers movies. I enjoyed it the whole time, but nothing really made it stand out from other good superhero movies.

I think I agree with lower middle pack. I'd probably put it near the first Captain America in the Marvel movie rankings, personally, and I feel very similarly about that one too.

level 3

Wow you took the words right out of my mouth, that's about exactly how I feel. I enjoyed the movie but just felt it was lacking. I think there's loads of potential with the character though especially considering how well received this movie was, that could embolden them with how they address certain themes in the sequel. Very stoked about our girl Vers going forward. Which is about exactly how I felt about Cap after his first movie. Man you really nailed it.

level 4

I do also agree with the character having potential. I don't think people are wrong that she felt a little flat at times, but it felt to me like more of a writing/editing issue than acting, personally. But the character felt like, and I'm hoping that it's just a matter of finding the right time for her and her movies. Cap and Thor both became better characters over time, and in particular had movies where Marvel figured out the right genre for them and there was suddenly a huge boost in quality (Cap movies as political thrillers in Winter Soldier, Thor as sci first comedy in Ragnarok).

I think the character is enough fun that there's potential for her to have her Winter Soldier or Ragnarok moment where Marvel figures out what to do with her and we suddenly get something amazing. But her first was definitely more of a Cap 1, a fun and perfectly solid but now spectacular origin story.

level 2
5 points · 1 day ago

I'm not sure if it's just because I don't watch that many marvel movies, or that all the ones I tend to like (Guardians, ragnarok) focus more on space/aliens, but I thought it was pretty good

level 2
5 points · 1 day ago

I think you nailed it and cover some of the controversy for me. This is a solid lower middle pack movie. It's too bad because there is enough material they lay out to make a better movie if they cut out any of the story lines and spent more time on the others. It wouldn't even matter witch thread, just slow down the transitioning between external things and let us get to see her deal with the things that have already been introduced.

The 3rd act should have been simplified down to her dealing with her old team in Louisiana while slowly overcoming her limiter as the fight progresses and we get to see her ramp up.

Cut the bombing scene and just have Ronin show up after the team is dealt with and she is at full power and have her take out two ships quickly and Ronin retreat.

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